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 Post subject: Hidden Units
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:38 pm 
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I had always assumed that an ambushing unit in hiding is revealed once the ambush is sprung. So the ambushed unit is able to fire back normally. But now looking over the rules it appears that a unit in hiding can only be spotted as per the rules on pg 64 for Spotting Hidden Units (must be within optimum range to have a chance). So it seems possible that a unit could be engaged by a hidden ambush outside TQ range and not be able to return fire. Am I reading this right?

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 Post subject: Re: Hidden Units
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:10 pm 
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Ambush range is twice the ambushing units TQ. Units can not try to spot an ambushing unit untill it is with in its optimum range.
If a unit has (spotted) or has an enemy unit in LOS/LOF it may fire on it at any range. Note that if the target is outside of OR you can not claim the "with in OR bonus die.

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 Post subject: Re: Hidden Units
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:37 am 
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As far as I can see in these rules it is impossible to shoot at someone and not be fired back on. (unless you kill everyone you're firing at, or they have no firepower dice left)?


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 Post subject: Re: Hidden Units
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:58 am 
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Some what right as in real life you have to choose the best time to engage because its very likely that you will recieve return fire..
The ambush rules give you a chance to hurt or kill an enemy unit and stop or make him think twice about what he is trying to do.
If ambushing a unit and you get it right you can hurt it so bad or kill it that its return fire is not effective.
The next turn you move into cover or out of LOS and move to an advantage that allows you to do it again.
You just have to remember that good tactics like bounding overwatch or AFVs in Support by fire positions can punnish you if you are not carefull.

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 Post subject: Re: Hidden Units
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:04 am 
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Although I can not find a specific rule that specifically points it out, I believe once a unit fires it is no longer Hidden. There is, however, some evidence that this is the case. On page 42, right before Example 1, it says that a unit on Overwatch or one that sacrifices an action can React to the Ambush. This alludes to the fact that the previously Hidden unit is no longer hidden and other units other than the one being engaged may take action against them.

Hidden or not, I agree with dunnhd in that a unit which is fired upon can nearly always fire back. In addition to the exceptions already pointed out, another case where a unit couldn't fire back is if they are Irregulars and have already been activated or reacted that round (they can only fire once per round).

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 Post subject: Re: Hidden Units
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:11 am 
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Once a unit opens fire its location will generaly be known to the enemy force . due to the vast amount of communication devices availible.
Which is why it behooves you to move the next turn and get the heck out of dodge (unless the position is so critical to your game plan or provides the Best cover in that sector).
There are some atributes that alow some units to remain hidden even after firing tho Like: Stealthy or suppressed weapons..........Mikey

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 Post subject: Re: Hidden Units
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:44 pm 
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As they used to tell us, "A properly executed ambush will have 90% of the enemy within the kill zone dead or incapacitated within the first 10 seconds.."

Remember, trained units spend untold hours practicing ambush drills, whether it's to engage to establish fire superiority then flank / assault through, or to break contact and get out of the kill zone. I know as a young infantryman in the mid 70's we spent a ton of time doing this because ambushes ARE deadly and you want to break up the enemy's ability to properly execute it in full once it's been initiated. So yes, ambushers will get fired upon once they spring the ambush.

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