I am making some home-brewed exemples when suppression fire can be used.

While I think that a suppressive check and a morale check are too complicated for the game, I find too that the suppressive fire rule is after all, IMO obviously, useless.

The game is about the capacity to lay dfown firepower yet, and the morale rules are very detailed and realistic yet. So when the game takes in account the firepower layed down by a fireteam, the power that MGs and GLs have and the tactical use of them.

After all two different checks to represent pinned units on the field, suppressive kind a morale kind of checks, are "overruling" on a matter so "chaotic" sometimes like morale.

The suppressive fire rule is also something that is rarely active in the game but its iterwoven nature with the morale rules make it a very confusiong rule difficult to deal with in a game that has yet many factors to remeber.

Anyway the morale rules and the pinning rules alone, combined with the firepower-centric FoF system, take yet correctly in account the suppressive effects in combat so I have seen that the game is better and equally realistic when the suppressive fire rule is totally wiped out.

Please, do not reply with something like "if you don't like do not use it", I want to know your experience with the rule in the game and what you think about it.

I dont have my book handy.. but my experience with suppressive fire is that is was incredibly effective.

The situation was one where you had two teams. One in cover, the other wanting to move out of cover and across an open street which was being watched by an enemy unit in a house. Team one hit the enemy team in the house with suppressive fire, wounding one model in the process and pinning them. They were then unable to react to the second team which ran around the back of the building and to the objective.

It is situational. I see it working better with regular vs regular than regular vs insurgent.

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"Violence. It might not be the answer, but it sure cuts down on the questions."

Omar's Workbench - Gaming Blog

Well you wounded the target, so they had to make a morale check not a suppressive check. That is good and it is exactly what I am talking about. If you fire to an enemy target trying to pin it, you are making YET a suppressive fire.

With no benefits for passing a morale check and disadvantages for failing them, it is good for a firing unit to force as many morale checks upon their targets as possible.

It reduces the number of FP dice that can be fired in return fire, it can force a unit in a strong position to fall back thus relinquishing any advantage it might have had. Against an irregular force it may even force them to flee the battlefield altogether.

The idea behind suppressive fire I believe, is the firing unit relying more on volume of fire to keep the enemy's head down rather than inflict casualties (although this can happen anyway) thus causing the target unit to take a morale check if the suppression is successful in addition to any other morale checks the unit may have to take.

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"The first thing people do in this situation is panic"
"Good, I am glad I am doing it in the right order!!!'

They take both, the way I read it. I will re-read and confirm if someone else doesnt get to it first.

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"Violence. It might not be the answer, but it sure cuts down on the questions."

Omar's Workbench - Gaming Blog

They seem to not take both! Only the morale check is required, at first even I was thinking that, but the rule says that the morale check has the precedence!

The Morale check takes precedence for effect. Pinned is a more serious result (it can trigger a fall back if another Morale failure occurs, Suppressed can't) than Suppressed, so Pinned takes precedent.

Both checks are still made.

I think you're still confusing Morale checks with Suppression Checks. Suppression checks use Morale Dice, but are not Morale checks. They're Suppression Checks.

If a unit receives Suppression Fire and at least one of the attacker's FP dice are a 4+, the unit must make a suppression check by rolling its Morale dice. If it fails it is Suppressed.

If a unit receives Suppression Fire that causes a casualty it must make a Morale check. If it passes the Morale check, it must make a Suppression check. If it fails the Morale check, it is Pinned (at least) which has a more serious effect than a Suppression, so there's no need to make a Suppression check.

I don't think the mechanic is all that complex, I think you're just having a little trouble wrapping your brain around it, which I apologize for. We thought the wording of the rules was fairly clear, but apparently everyone doesn't find it so.

Suppression Fire is a very powerful tool. It allows a unit to seriously degrade the effectiveness of an enemy unit without so much as causing a casualty. This can be very important when a force is trying to advance against a defended position.

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Shawn Carpenter
Game Designer, Ambush Alley Games

"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."

Thanks for clearing that up Shawn. It's good to have the rules in written form and a definite answer as how it was meant to be played. Your proximity to the community is very much appreciated. It also helps people to feel free asking all those questions.

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ad astra per aspera
liber et infractus

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." –- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

Happy to help, gents!

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Shawn Carpenter
Game Designer, Ambush Alley Games

"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."

Ok, I try again then:

So taking in consideration morale checks are done before suppressive checks...

Fire of a squad armed only with 5 rifles and a LMG on a Low Confidence squad:
1 - target must do a morale check (fired on), if it is a failure they are pinned
2 - IF target has casualties they must check again for morale, if the previous ones was a faliure they must pull off. If there are no casualties the suppressive check is made only if the previous morale check (1) has been passed.

Fire of a squad armed only with 5 rifles and a LMG on a Confident squad:
1 - IF target has casualties they must check for morale, if they fail they are pinned. If no casualties are inflicted AND a 4+ is rolled AND the firepower is of 3D+ (and it is because 5 men with a LMG is a 6D total) they must do a suppression check.

Fire of a squad armed with 5 rifles and HMG on a Confident squad:
1 - target must do immediately a suppression check (the weapon is intimidating)
2 - target must do a morale check (they are fired on by a mounted weapon of 3D+), if the previous one was a failure they must pull off
3 - IF target has casualties they must check again for morale, if one of the previous ones was a failure they pull back, if they are pulling back yet there are no other effects.

Is there any error?

You have it right till you hit the HMG. It should go like this:


Fire of a squad armed with 5 rifles and HMG on a Confident squad:
1 - target must do immediately a suppression check (the weapon is intimidating)
2 - target must do a morale check (they are fired on by a mounted weapon of 3D+)
3 - IF target has casualties they must check again for morale, if the previous check (2) was a failure they pull back. If they take another morale failure (from some other fire in the same turn, they must fall back again. The same is true if they fail a Morale check regrouping in the following turn.

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Shawn Carpenter
Game Designer, Ambush Alley Games

"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."

Ok... I am starting to clear the fog in my mind about the whole matter...

Thanks for patience

No problem, sir! That's what the forum is for!

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Shawn Carpenter
Game Designer, Ambush Alley Games

"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."

I have found that supressive fire is a great tactic for an insurgent unit to use to pin down bigger weapons like .50 cals on vehicles that tend to make a mess of them real quick. By using the fire to supress the target, it can cause the target to button up reducing its effectiveness.

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"People sleep peaceably in their bed at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Then the rule does exactly what it should do.

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ad astra per aspera
liber et infractus

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." –- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)