Hi

I would like to ask how I should treat hedges in the FoF rules. The rules deal with wooded areas buit I am not sure how hedges should fit into the game and what eefect they should have.

I would be using maybe three types of hedges:
1. low below waist height trimmed urban hedges
2. bushier 'countryside 'above waist height maybe with a low earth bank
3.dense heavy hedges with stone and earth banks think ww2 bocage here.

Really appreciate any advice on this.

Cheers
Alex

I think they should all provide an opportunity to go into "Hiding" and type 2 and 3 hedges, those having earth or stone works as a fundament, should also give "Cover" of 1D. The others just block LOS.

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"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." –- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

Alex
The issue is that we use terrain in an abstract way , In other words it affects game play the way you say it does in your scenario.
I honestly don't know how a modern battle tank like the M1 ,Chally or Leo would handle Bocage. I would assume much the same way as their forefathers did with a dozer tank to push a hole thru it .
Then again The modern tank is in the 60-65 ton range and may not need help.
I can not even begin to guess how a lighter lower silhouette soviet or Chinese tank might do.
The light hedge should not hinder AFVs or infantry much . It should block LOS/LOF unless units are directly on it edge. It should provide solid cover to those behind it.
Infantry there is no path or hole thru it would prob need to be in base to base contact for a turn before passing thru and movement restricted to tactical only on the approach and egress
Medium would prob hinder wheeled non AFVs Block LOS about 3 inches beyond its edge. Give solid cover all movement to and from the obstacle would be tactical.
Heavy bocage should be impassable to all but heavy AFV with out Engineer support (a dozer blade equipped vehicle) LOS restricted to 3 inches beyond it edge and provide solid cover.
These are just suggestions to some ways to handle it I'm sure others will offer other ways and you can choose what fits best what your trying to do ....Cheers Mikey

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Given Tigers needed help to get through Bocage, I imagine any tank would.


But its a moot point as all hedges like that vanished from Western Europe during the late 40s/early 50s as industrialised farming became widespread and field boundaries were removed to maximise space and create large fields for better economic production.

There is only around 2 square KM of 'true' bocage left in Normandy, and its now a protected historical feature.

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I am playing ww2 games with FoF rules - that is what my figure collection and interest is centred on. Hence my question: presumed other ww2 players must have had to deal with this somehow in their games.

cheers

Bocage hedges are really high and steep, so it could be a problem for a modern MBT in the 60-70 t range to get through. But one of the main problems I believe was the "angle" tanks needed to push against a bocage hedge. When driving on one of the narrow roads of Normandy you could not maneuver into a 90° angle and hitting such a hedge from a very flat angle (like 160° or so) makes it indefinately more problematic to pass over. Your tank migh tip over or simply not climb up at all. Tigers were underpowered and if I remember kinetics well enough, it's not only mass, but more so the velocity that generates energy. So an underpowered 70t Tiger II might have greater trouble than a Stewart M5.

_________________
ad astra per aspera
liber et infractus

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." –- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

I think I am going to use the woods rules but treat hedges as very thin woods. So neat low tyrimmed hedges are equivalent to ligt woods in game terms bocage would be something like heavy woods and wild hedges would be similar to medium woods in effect.

so how do other people rule on hedges?

I don't deal much with European style hedges, but for my African terrain, the rules I use for groups of bushes may apply nicely.

Basically if a unit is within 2" of bushes they can both shoot and be shot at.

If they are further away than 2" then the bushes block LOS to/from the units being separated.

Being within 2" of bushes prevents a unit from being considered 'in the open', but does not provide any additional cover bonus.

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Thats pretty much how we played them tonight except we ruled within 3 inches. Cheers for feedback.