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 Post subject: Mk48 mod 0
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:19 am 
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I see in Enduring Freedom the Mk48 mod 0 is a AP2 weapon. Now with M240L replacing M240B and Mk48 in the weapon squads I presume more of the Mk48 are finding there way into the fireteams.

Anyone know of the ratio of Mk48 vs. M249s in US Army infantry platoon's squad fireteams are?

Another question, how many HUMVEES are in active duty now compared to MRAPs in Afghanistan in the US Army?

J Damn

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 Post subject: Re: Mk48 mod 0
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:57 am 
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we can guestimate and often have hard data for the make up of squads but there is just no way to provide numbers of weapons and equipment in theater.

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 Post subject: Re: Mk48 mod 0
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:30 pm 
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JDAM2000 wrote:
I see in Enduring Freedom the Mk48 mod 0 is a AP2 weapon. Now with M240L replacing M240B and Mk48 in the weapon squads I presume more of the Mk48 are finding there way into the fireteams.

Anyone know of the ratio of Mk48 vs. M249s in US Army infantry platoon's squad fireteams are?

The Mk 48 Mod 0s were originally procured as an interim replacement for the M240B with troops serving in Afghanistan until the M240L could be fielded. What was found when the PM Soldier Weapons Assessment Team found when they showed up in either 2009 or 2010 was that the increased engagement ranges being encountered there had led the units that received the weapons to retain the M240Bs at platoon level and push the Mk 48 Mod 0s down to squad level as replacements for the M249. So this was/is already happening.

The Assessment Team also reported that leaders in Afghanistan wanted to bag worrying about the M240L and just adopt the Mk 48 Mod 0 outright, in spite of its known reliability issues. This was because as of May 2010, only 50 M240L had been delivered and production of that weapon was just getting started. The Mk 48 Mod 0, however, was already in full production. As of 2011, there were said to be 500 Mk 48 Mod 0s in Afghanistan with the US Army and a total of 1,459 M240Ls fielded (not specifically to Afghanistan).

I could imagine that the US Army might try and get units that received the Mk 48 Mod 0 to turn them in on a one-for-one basis for M240Ls. This is pure speculation, but its based on previous historical examples. What might happen is that since the M240Bs will still be in the supply chain, one might see the same situation where the new weapons are pushed down to the squads happen and the M240Bs are retained.

JDAM2000 wrote:
Another question, how many HUMVEES are in active duty now compared to MRAPs in Afghanistan in the US Army?

Impossible to say how many in Afghanistan, but the US Army claimed to have ~19,000 MRAPs total in the 2011 Army Tactical Wheeled Vehicle Strategy report. By comparison the US Army claims to have over 160,000 HMMWVs total. Again, its impossible to say for sure how many are in Afghanistan. Its even more difficult to say for sure because the MRAPs would likely be replacing HMMWVs more so than other vehicle types, so just getting a rough estimate based on how many are authorized per brigade or something would be hard.

A good sense of how MRAPs are deployed (at least as of 2008) can be found in the following document: CALL Handbook 8-30: MRAP Vehicles - Tactics, Techniques and Procedures.

Now, to head off people concerned about OPSEC, since I already had to respond to this on the TMP boards, I'll explain it all here right now.

Firstly, it says very clearly (emphasis added):

Quote:
This product is designed for official use by U.S., coalition, and allied personnel and cannot be released to the public without the expressed written consent of CALL.


Quote:
This information is furnished with the understanding that it is to be used for defense purposes only, that it is to be afforded essentially the same degree of security protection as such information is afforded by the United States, and that it is not to be revealed to another country or international organization without the written consent of CALL.


I have the aforementioned requisite written consent. The document was obtained by me through a Freedom of Information Act Request and regardless is unclassified. I am more than willing to share said written consent with anyone who is interested.

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 Post subject: Re: Mk48 mod 0
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:06 am 
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as far as MK48 in afghanistan, they have most likely gone to mostly ranger and sf units, i have yet seen them here, my friend has claimed to have fallen in on one when he rip the previuse unit, so that is 1 in a batlion that is spread out all over the country. and as far as humvees vs MRAP, the only autherised vehicle to leave the wire is a MRAP and vics with sucj protection, the army (SF aside) does not currently allow the use of Humvees in sector


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 Post subject: Re: Mk48 mod 0
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:24 am 
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Thank you for the info.

Now we need someone to make a 15mm 4x4 MRAP!

In that report the infantry (Inf Bde Cbt Grp) supply their own crew, so the point of taking a 6x6 MRAP if they need to dismount and sweep, search or clear you only leave 2 men for each vehicle.

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 Post subject: Re: Mk48 mod 0
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:02 am 
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ORF do the "Mastiff" which looks very similar.

IanS (no I'm not working for em)

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 Post subject: Re: Mk48 mod 0
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:07 am 
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Yes, I have one QRF Mastiff to convert into a Cougar. I was happy to see that the skeleton of the Mastiff has the windows, so no need to make the windows.

So maybe 2 more, and hopefully 4x4 MRAPs to come.

J

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 Post subject: Re: Mk48 mod 0
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:31 am 
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wilks wrote:
as far as MK48 in afghanistan, they have most likely gone to mostly ranger and sf units, i have yet seen them here, my friend has claimed to have fallen in on one when he rip the previuse unit, so that is 1 in a batlion that is spread out all over the country.

The 500 I mentioned should be with regular US Army units. This is such a small number that it is easy to assume are only in service with a select few units or very widely dispersed. In 2009, it was reported that "Each Army infantry brigade combat team eventually will get 159 MK48s." (From OSD Public Affairs article, which can be found on DVIDS)

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 Post subject: Re: Mk48 mod 0
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:21 am 
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I'm honestly surprised that the Mk48s are getting phased out. I thought that since they are lighter than even M240Ls and are functionally an M249 shooting 7.62NATO, they would be more popular.

Some organizations preferred the M60s even with their reliability issues over the M240s just due to the weight issue, and even the M60E3 is a heavy pig to drag up a ladder... still my favorite weapon for FP watch, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Mk48 mod 0
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:26 am 
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I don't think they are being Phased out . The fielding process may be taking longer then expected.
If this is the case the army may field a place holder till it get its Chit strait.....Mikey

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 Post subject: Re: Mk48 mod 0
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:21 pm 
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Lion in the Stars wrote:
I'm honestly surprised that the Mk48s are getting phased out. I thought that since they are lighter than even M240Ls and are functionally an M249 shooting 7.62NATO, they would be more popular.

They were never really phased into the line US Army units from what I can tell. They were always intended as a stopgap until the M240L could be brought online. When they were distributed, they were substituted for weapons M249s, which had not been the intent too (though this is not at all surprising). The special operations community, who got FN to break out the old 7.62mm Minimi design and bring it up to date, will no doubt continue to use them. Its also likely that it will take some time to round up the Mk 48 Mod 0s that got issued to regular Army units, as these were clearly a welcome addition to the arsenal in Afghanistan.

Lion in the Stars wrote:
Some organizations preferred the M60s even with their reliability issues over the M240s just due to the weight issue, and even the M60E3 is a heavy pig to drag up a ladder... still my favorite weapon for FP watch, though.

The reliability issues of the M60E3 and the Mk 43 Mod 0/1 are the basic reasons cited for why the special operations community initiated the Lightweight LMG program that led to the Mk 48. Oddly enough, the Mk 48 weapons apparently still have reliability issues, but I guess these are less serious than those of the old M60-based weapons.

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