I'd probably be quite conservative and not even go that far, since that ability seems to be typically reserved to railguns or high energy weapons like plasmaguns. Going by 40k itself, they're only -1 save/AP5 depending on the edition.

That marines are throwing out D10 quality firepower is already very good, add in a support weapon like a plasmagun or flamer and a combat squad of 5 marines is sending a bundle of high quality firepower out (and if plasma/melta, removing a dice of armour as a bonus) with every exchange of fire.

With regards to marines, are we remembering that 100 of these guys (albeit with support) are supposed to be able to take over a planet?

I would go all out on their stats. But that is just me.

_________________
"I walk the path of righteousness and though it is paved with broken glass, I will walk it barefoot."

I think if we set the bolters as normale guns then we should keep any extra rule away. The higher Troop Quality of the marines make it hard for other troops to block such an attack. Damn Spurious was faster.



A power armoured Squad counting in any case as intimidating for troops without power armor, so you don't need it for the weapon as a extra attribute. If you wear a power armor yourself, I think you aren't interested if your enemay shoot with bolters at you.



But the idea why I had chosen the light support for the normal bolt gun, was on the one hand there is a gun with a very large caliber and the other I actually have assumed that the Marines always fight outnumbered and therefore they have to produce more firepower per model to get a fair chance in play.
I will try both opitions and will post the result what is the better way.

Greetz
Arkon

Only by doing things like decapitating their opponant's command, they're super special forces built for lighting fast raids against foes regular men could not hope to face and win, rather than just super infantry.

Makes for very easy charaterful scenario creation though, what with dropping from orbit onto command centers, high speed raids to destroy powerful giant warmachines before they power up, hunting down concentrations of monsterous creatures, dieing to the last man to cover the escape of everyone else, hiding in farms after accidents involving defence missiles...

Hmmm, fair. In that case I would agree that Bolters are Lt Support.
I also agree that a very small number of Marines should be able to take on a LOT of lower quality troops with little issue (although a TW scenario with Chaos marines vs regular marines would be fun!)

I would agree that a bolter would be a ABW. along with the smaller rifles carried by say the Cadians. They would be like the ACR's . The AP of one would be ok but you may have to limit the numbers of them to make it a balanced game. Currently, I have several squads of Cadians who are armed with ACR's and a support squad of heavy blolters. Working on a mortar squad as well. I suppose that they could be rated as ABW's as well. Has anyone tried to use any CAV's by Reaper as smartbots?

I'm having a bit of trouble trying to figure out 40k vehicles.
What would a Predator Tank be? Or a Gargant?
I'm a guard player, so obviously Sentinels and Leman Russ Tanks and Chimeras are important to me, but I'm not sure how heavy they should be. Or a Land Raider... Hell, we can now field SUPER Heavy tanks as gigantic vehicles!

I always pictured them as slow and lumbering but heavily armored tanks....

Chris

Hi Community,

I've worked a little further on the considerations for a conversion of the Space Marines to Tomorrow's War. I have integrated the Assault Squads and Devastator Squads into my design and made ​​a few "radical" changes to the GW Marines. I hope you like it.

Space Marines
Troop Quality: D8-D12
Moral: D8-D12
Confidence Level: High
Supply Quality Level: Normal to Abundant
Weapon: TL2
Body Armor: TL2 Scout Armor (2D) / TL2 Standard Power Armor (3D) / TL2 Terminator Power Armor (4D) or (3D)/Hard to Kill (D6)

Attributes:

For Units with Scout Armor
- Advanced Sensors (+1 die shift for Spotting Roll/Double Optimum Range/Night Vision)
- Skeletal Augmentation (+1D Defense)
- Augmented Senses (+1 Modifier for Spotting Roll)
- Close Assault Weapons
- Stealthy

For Units with Standard Power Armor
- Advanced Sensors (+1 die shift for Spotting Roll/Double Optimum Range/Night Vision)
- Active Trauma Treatment (Use Advanced First Aid Table/First Aid Check without any healthy Figure)
- Intimidating
- Inspiring
- Skeletal Augmentation (+1D Defense)
- Augmented Senses (+1 Modifier for Spotting Roll)
- Close Assault Weapons

For Units with Terminator Power Armor
- Advanced Sensors (+1 die shift for Spotting Roll/Double Optimum Range/Night Vision)
- Active Trauma Treatment (Use Advanced First Aid Table/First Aid Check without any healthy Figure)
- Intimidating
- Inspiring
- Skeletal Augmentation (+1D Defense)
- Augmented Senses (+1 Modifier for Spotting Roll)
- Slow (Only Tactical Movement / -1 for Reaction Test)
- Weapon Carrier (use Medium/Heavy Support Weapons without Movement Penalties)
- Close Assault Weapons

Space Marine Battle Company

1x Space Marine Command Squad
2x Space Marine Tactical Platoons
1x Space Marine Assault Platoon
1x Space Marine Devastator Platoon

Space Marine Command Squad
Battle Brother Captain w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon
Battle Brother Chaplain w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon
Battle Brother Apothecary (Medic) w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol
Battle Brother Standardbearer w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol

Space Marine Tactical Platoon

Battle Brother Lieutanent w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon

3x Space Marine Tactical Squads

Space Marine Tactical Squad

Battle Brother Sergeant w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon

Fire Team Alpha
Battle Brother w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol
Battle Brother w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol
Battle Brother (Specialist) w/Heavy Weapon/Bolt Pistol

Fire Team Beta
Battle Brother w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol
Battle Brother w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol
Battle Brother (Specialist) w/Assault Weapon/Bolt Pistol

Fire Team Gamma
Battle Brother w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol
Battle Brother w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol
Battle Brother w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol

Space Marine Assault Platoon

Attributes:
- Jump Troops

Battle Brother Lieutanent w/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon

2x Space Marine Assault Squads

Space Marine Assault Squad

Battle Brother Sergeant w/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon

Assault Team Alpha
Battle Brother w/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon
Battle Brother w/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon
Battle Brother w/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon
Battle Brother (Specialist) w/Assault Weapon/Bolt Pistol

Assault Team Beta
Battle Brother w/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon
Battle Brother w/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon
Battle Brother w/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon
Battle Brother w/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon
Battle Brother (Specialist) w/Assault Weapon/Bolt Pistol

Space Marine Devastator Platoon

Battle Brother Lieutanent w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon

2x Space Marine Devastator Squads

Space Marine Devastator Squad

Battle Brother Sergeant w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol/CC-Weapon

Support Team Alpha
Battle Brother w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol
Battle Brother (Specialist) w/Heavy Weapon/Bolt Pistol
Battle Brother (Specialist) w/Heavy Weapon/Bolt Pistol

Support Team Beta
Battle Brother w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol
Battle Brother w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol
Battle Brother (Specialist) w/Heavy Weapon/Bolt Pistol

Support Team Gamma
Battle Brother w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol
Battle Brother w/Bolter (Lt. ABW AP:1)/Bolt Pistol
Battle Brother (Specialist) w/Heavy Weapon/Bolt Pistol

Space Marine Weapons

Support Weapon
Stormbolter - Lt. ABW AP:1 or AP:2

Assault Weapon
Melta Gun - Med. EWS AP:2/AT:2(M) - Target in Optimum Range - Med. EWS AP:3 /AT:3(H)
Plasma Gun - Med. EWS AP:2/AT:2(L)

Heavy Weapon
Heavy Bolter - Med. ABW AP:2/AT: 2(L)
Assault Cannon - Med ABW AP:2/AT:1(L)
Multi Melta - Hvy. EWS - AP-Mode: AP:4/AT:2(M) - AT-Mode: AP:2/AT:4(H)
Plasma Cannon - Hvy. EWS AP:3/AT:3(M)
Lascannon - Hvy. LWS AP:2/AT:4(H)
Rocket Launcher - Med. AP:2/AT:2(M)

@greedo
I must read the vehicle rules again and then I think I can post some vehicle drafts.

@all
C&C are welcome.

Greetz
Arkon

Would it be proper to give all Marines "Hard to Kill" because of all the special organs and reinforced skeletons?

They already have augmented skelaton bonuses. I think giving them hard to kill might be over kill. Although I do agree with Terminator armor having 3D armor + H2K.

I guess you're right -- they DO have a nasty habit of walking around a battlefield with no helmet on.

D.

Hey, all. To get my hand in to playing TW, I wrote a short conversion article. I hasten to add that this is not a conversion of Warhammer 40,000 to TW, but rather a TW army list to allow you to field Citadel "space marine" miniatures in a generic dystopian future setting.

The idea is to provide a rough analogue for existing space marine units that will easily allow players to customize their own forces accordingly.

TOMORROW'S GRIM DARKNESS

In a distant time, technology will reach a pinnacle of perfection at which almost any imaginable outcome is possible. But what goes up must come down and, not long after this peak is achieved, human society will begin to decline into war, treachery and brutal internecine slaughter, during which the understanding of the fundamental principles of the technology will be lost and a new era of techno-barbarism commence.

The Adonoi are bred and raised for warfare by their technocrat masters, genetically altered and implanted with biological and technological enhancements that defy comprehension. Upon reaching adulthood they are inducted into their master's elite bodyguards wherein they form a part of an ancient brotherhood. Clad in the finest armour, wielding weapons of astonishing power, they crash against others of their kind in battles of unrelenting ferocity, administer their lord's will upon rebellious serfs and expand their lord's domains into fresh territory.

Overall Tech-Level: 3

Adonoi Grid
Ordinates and Initiates don't connect to a traditional military grid. Rather, their armoured suits, designed with technology no longer fully understood, forms a network of data-gathering automata that feed information and battlefield awareness directly to the senses of their wearers, so an adonoi in full armour can “feel” where the enemy is, sense the pain of loss as a fellow is wounded or killed, and perceive intuitively the area of the battlefield to which his lord requires his deployment.

Even when an Ordinate has been seriously wounded or killed it takes a great deal to stop his armour from continuing to survey the battlefield and feed a continuous stream of data into the grid. As a result the Grid of an adonoi force is not only TL3 but practically un-hackable. On the other hand, it has no capability to degrade an opposing Grid.

If an Adonoi on-Grid force is fighting against an enemy on-Grid force, do not roll to see which Grid is dominant. Instead, both Grids remain in play.

Whenever a Fog of War card suggests that the Adonoi Grid has failed or been suborned in some fashion, make a TQ test for the highest TQ present in the Adonoi force. If the test is passed, the Fog of War card is discarded with no effect.

Adonoi Weapons
The Adonoi carry a wide range of different weapons optimized for specific roles, but their primary personal weapon is the .998 DAK-4. Whilst its range and rate of fire are comparatively poor compared to equivalents used by other forces, the DAK-4 makes up for its shortfalls with its psychological impact. Its conventional round is the caseless .75 DS bolt, a self-propelled explosive anti-personnel round that explodes an instant after penetration, causing horrendous wounds. Even when it doesn't wound, the impact explosions and, moreover, the reputation of the weapon are often sufficient to shake even the most steadfast of enemies.

The DAK-4 is a conventional TL2 personal weapon, but is also Intimidating.

The DAK-40 is a larger-calibre version of the DAK-4 with a slightly increased range and rate of fire whilst still being man-portable (for an adonoi) (TL2, ABW, Med, AP3/AT1, Intimidating).

The K2 Plasma rifle is popular squad support weapon that provides limited capability against light armoured vehicles (TL3, EWS, Lt, AP2/AT2).

The GTR Fusion rifle is a specialist squad support weapons deployed when adonoi expect to meet armoured resistance or enemies in heavily fortified positions (TL3, EWS, Lt, AP1/AT3).

The “Bullroarer” Flamethrower is commonly used by Ordinate squads deployed on terror and suppression missions (Light Flamethrower, TL2, Intimidating).

The Talon is a multi-purpose guided missile launcher, equally potent against armoured or infantry targets (TL2, GWS, Med, AP2/AT3).

The Godhammer is a medium laser weapon, designed for busting heavy armour but which is often deployed as an “extreme prejudice” sniper weapon (TL3, LWS, Med, AP1/AT4).

The K3 Starkiller is a medium-support version of the K2 Plasma rifle, usually reserved for battles against other adonoi (TL3, EWS, Med, AP3/AT2).

The GTRX is a dual-chamber medium version of the GTR Fusion rifle, intended for bunker-busting in the attack or defensive fire against armoured assaults (TL3, EWS, Med, AP2/AT4).

The DAK-3 pistol is the standard-issue sidearm of all adonoi (TL2, SMG). Unless specifically stated, any adonos, including Novitiates, will carry a DAK-3 alongside any other weapons indicated.

The DAK-50 rifle is a long-ranged sniper rifle using a .45 DS armour penetrating bolt, usually reserved for the use of Novitiates and their Magister-Ordinates (TL2, TST, Lt, AP3/AT1).

Many senior ordinates and officers of adonoi chapterhouses wield Advanced Assault Weapons. These come in many forms, from brutal, ripping chainblades for the most bloodthirsty, to elegant crystalline energy weapons. In many cases, the underpinning technologies are long-lost and such weapons are therefore reserved only for brethren who have displayed the highest standards of courage and military skill. Some chapterhouses have been known to deploy entire squads armed in this fashion, usually on punitive missions.

For each model in a squad armed with an Advanced Assault Weapon (AAW), add +1D to the squad's close combat Firepower.

Adonoi Magistrate Weapons
The DAK-44 is a twin-barrelled version of the DAK-4: in many ways a ridiculous weapon, it requires a precisely-calibrated magnetic launching rack to fire the .75 DS bolt pairs in perfect sequence, but its integration with the Adonoi Grid means that these nevertheless strike home with deadly accuracy. The DAK-44 is identical in use to the DAK-4, but TL3.

The DAK-AC was originally designed to be vehicle mounted and can still be found extensively on walker and armoured vehicles of the Adonoi. Magistrates, however, have the heavy powered armour necessary to wield these devastating gatling weapons as man-portable units (TL2, TST, Hvy, AP4/AT3, Intimidating).

The Hellroarer is an upgraded Bullroarer which, like the DAK-AC, was designed for vehicle use but which Magistrates will use on the rare occasions they perform punitive or clearance missions (Heavy flamethrower, TL2, Intimidating).

The Talon Hurricane is an adapted remote guided missile launcher, mounted on the armour of a Magistrate (as Talon, but TL3).

Shock shields are seen throughout many Adonoi chapterhouses, but it is amongst the Magistrates that they are most common. Each shock shield in a unit adds +1D to the units Body Armour defence.

ORDINATE CELL
The “standard” squad of adonoi, an Ordinate Cell consists of a charismatic veteran sergeant and four ordinates, all of whom are exemplary and experienced warriors in their own right. The Cell trains together, lives together and fights together and each knows his brothers as well as he knows himself. These squads are often deployed unsupported to trouble spots by their lords, expected to eliminate enemy armies, renegade militias and all sort of other threats alone and to return undefeated.

Troop Quality/Morale: D10/D10
Initiative Level: D10
Confidence: High
Supply Quality: Adundant
On Grid: Yes (TL3)
Armour: Light Powered Armour (2D)

1x Sergeant w/DAK-3 & AAW
1x Grenadier w/ DAK-40
1x Specialist w/ K2 Plasma rifle
2x Ordinate Brothers w/DAK-4

ORDINATE EXEMPLAR CELL
The Exemplars are adonoi with a special talent for close fighting and a bloodthirsty demeanour. They will normally train and serve alongside their brethren in a conventional Ordinate cell but, when circumstances call for a punitive strike or for an example to be made of an enemy, a rebellious community or a wayward ally, the adonoi's lord will call for an Exemplar Cell to be formed.

Exemplars will sometimes deploy with jump packs.

1x Sergeant w/DAK-3 & AAW
1x Specialist w/ Bullroarer
3x Ordinate Brothers w/DAK-3 & AAW

ORDINATE PSILOI CELL
The status of “Psilos” is bestowed upon a new Ordinate once he has been granted his first suit of powered armour. A psilos serves in support of more experienced Ordinates while he comes to terms with the strange new senses and battle wisdom that his armour's technology confers upon him. He carries potent medium support weapons to clear the path for advancing ordinates and eliminate armoured threats from afar.

1x Sergeant w/DAK-4
2x Psiloi w/Talon
2x Psiloi w/Godhammer

MAGISTRATE CELL
Magistrates are among the oldest and most revered of the brethren of a chapterhouse; those who have conducted thousands of missions, who have raised dozens of novitiates to the status of ordinate and overcome impossible odds uncounted times. In many ways, it is fair to say that the Magistratum is the foundation of a chapterhouse's reputation.

Having reached an advanced age – often in excess of three sidereal centuries – they are invariably retired from regular active service. On the rare occasions that they do take to the field, they wear the oldest and most sophisticated of armoured suits: heavy powered armour that allows them to wield weapons substantially more devastating than their Ordinate brethren.

1x Magistrate Superior w/DAK-44 & AAW
1x Magistrate Specialist w/DAK-AC & AAW
3x Magistrates w/DAK-44 & AAW

Magistrates do not carry DAK-3s.

MAGISTRATE EXEMPLAR SQUAD
It is rare, indeed, that the Magistrate Exemplar squad is deployed to the field of battle. More often, they are sent out alone to face a force that must be shown the full, bitter fury of their lord.

3x Magistrates w/Shock shield & AAW
2x Magistrate Specialist w/2x AAW

NOVITIATE CELL
Before an aspirant can even be considered for the status of psilos, let alone a position in an Ordinate Cell, he must first complete three years' service as a Novitiate, in which time he is rewarded with bio-technological enhancements in a series of ritualized “initiations”. Many of these are useless without later enhancement or the full armour of an Ordinate, but under the watchful eye of an ordinate magister-sergeant the Novitiates learn the rites of battle until they are offered the armour of a fallen ordinate and his place in the Cell.

Troop Quality/Morale: d8/d10
Initiative Level: d8
Confidence: Confident
Supply Quality: Normal
On Grid: No
Armour: Light Body Armour (1D)

1x Magister-Sergeant w/DAK-50
4x Novitiate Brothers w/DAK-50

I'll be playtesting this tonight and more over the next few months, so all thoughts and feedback are welcome. Apologies for wall of text.

R.

@precinctomega

I like your proposals for the conversion very much. All your descriptions are logical and understandable and they have a nice touch of fresh wind.

But I see for two points problems arise. The first point is the overall tech level that you have given to this army. With a tech level of 3, you have no space for technically more advanced armies (like Tau or Eldar).

And the second point is that many of your troops will have a problem with the firepower cap, if they shoot at one target. You lose a lot of unnecessary dice of firepower if you concentrate too many heavy weapons in too large troops. I think smaller troops are more effective and they give you also even more initiative dice.

Another point is that I don't understand why you give the Talon as a rocket launcher the GWS attribute. ABW would make more sense to me.

That was my thoughts. Otherwise, your ideas are really very good.

Greetz
Arkon

@Arkon4000 - Well, first of all the project is very WIP. I'm really just getting to grips with the TW rules, being new to Ambush Alley, so as I gain more familiarity, I'm sure I'll be tweaking these into shape.

That said, let's look at the points in order:

Overall Tech Level
The first crucial point to make is that this is a conversion system to use your GW minis in games of Tomorrow's War that are appropriate to the aesthetic of the miniatures and roughly approximate to existing collections. This is why the squads are organized along roughly equivalent lines to those described in the Space Marine codices. However, the universe I'm describing - whilst it shares the "grimdark" aesthetic of the 40kverse - is not the 40kverse. So things don't necessarily work the way you might expect with a straight conversion.

This is a case in point: in the 40kverse, the powered armoured suits of the space marines are built from designs developed mostly since the fall of the human Golden Age. In the case of the Adonoi, however, they are actual technological relics from the golden age. As such, they are about as high in technology as it is possible for anything to be, operating on a subatomic level of sophistication. Of course, the people who wear them don't understand this, but that doesn't make them less sophisticated.

This overall TL therefore reflects the quality of the armour, the Grid and the interaction between armour and small arms (DAK-4s). There was much discussion above in this thread about what the qualities of a "bolter" (DAK-4 in my case) should be, and I decided that, whilst the munitions themselves are pretty much high-level TSTs, the TL of 3 combined with the Intimidating trait puts them at the appropriate level of scariness.

The rest of their armaments are mostly of a lower TL, reflecting their (comparatively) lower interactivity.

I might consider reducing the TL once I've had a chance to properly playtest this out but, honestly, I think it will work. As for Eldar, Necrons and other sophisticated alien races (who won't be called "Eldar" or "Necrons", but you'll know who I'm talking about) they, too, will have a TL of 3. This is intended to represent that fact that their technologies are operating at the same pinnacle that humans reached in their golden age. However, they will enjoy additional advantages and special rules (for the most part harvested directly from the TW rulebook) to represent their different superiorities. Necrons, for example, won't have any weapons or armour with a TL of less than 3, ever (Eldar might, though).

Firepower cap
This is an excellent point. Actually, the concentration of so much redundant power in single squads (especially Magistrate squads) is deliberate. Adonoi don't operate, tactically, as squads. They are elite terror troops who deploy as squads but who, using their unhackable Grid, rapidly disperse into pairs to lay down the pain, confident in their invulnerability. Magistrates should really deploy singly as Positive Leaders for Adonoi squads. Although presenting them as squads is something I'll stick to, mainly as an aide memoir for players coming across from 40k, I'll emphasize this quality of the Adonoi tactical doctrine more in the final document.

Talon
Yeah, it's a bit of a six-of-one-half-a-dozen-of-the-other situation. I went with the GWS because it provides a better balance of AT and AP capability, representing the dual munitions of the Adonoi rocket launcher. It isn't, actually, a gauss weapon at all, of course, but an advanced ballistic weapon. But its effects aren't those of an ABW but of a GWS. So go figure.

I'm still working on this as time allows. At the moment, I'm looking at the Imperial Guard conversion. This is a little trickier than the Adonoi, because they will represent a very broad range of different factions in the universe of Tomorrow's Grim Darkness, from barely-trained militia up to elite special forces that could, with a tactical edge, take on and beat the Adonoi.

At the moment, I'm sticking purely to infantry forces and want to cover all the major factions to allow as many 40k players as possible to get into the basics of TW before I go back and address vehicles and, then, special characters.

R.

P.S. Sorry to have taken so long to reply to this. I usually browse the AAG forums on my phone, and, for some reason, whenever I tried to upload this page (not any other forum page - just this one), my browser app would shut down.