Perhaps in the table 54 the suppressive fire is after all taken in consideration, but that way I have not understood the rules for suppressive fire perhaps.

In the Morale table in page 54 is clearly stated that a confident unit must check for morale if fired upon by a support or vehicle mounted weapon with an unmodified firepower of 3D+.

In pag 41 it is said that a confident unit must check for morale if fired by a suppressive fire that has a modified Firepower of 3D+.

So, suppose a squad with 5 regulars is firing with a HMG, that squad will have 8 firepower dices (5 for the squad, +3 for the HMG). The unit fired upon must check for morale 2 times (one for being targeted by a unit with an HMG - so using automatically the suppressive fire - with more than 3D, and one for being targeted by a support weapon with more than 3D?), and, if casualties are inflicted, there will be even a third check?

Joe
Your mistaking suppression checks for morale checks and that's our fault as we misquoted the process..
For instance: on Page 44 regarding Intimidating weapons it states " must take a morale check to see if you are suppressed" it should say troop quality test....Not Morale check.
So if your confidant unit is fired upon by that HMG lets see how we should handle it...
First we check for hits to determine if any of our figures are down. If we suffer any casualties we have to wait till the beginning of the next turn to see what there status is .
so we instead roll TQ to see if we are suppressed due to the weapon 3D or over or due to Intimidating weapon . we only need to check once as either will cause a suppression , and you can be suppressed more then once with no cumulative effect.
Beginning of next turn we do our first aid check and that is when we roll for Morale and where such effects as being pinned may occur..
so when the round of fire occurs we first roll to see if anyone is hit . then we roll to see if they get suppressed .
Next turn we roll first aid , Then Morale . Morale effect always super cede suppression effects.........
Mikey

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"All Men for the rights of Every man, every man for the rights of all Men"

Mikey

You roll for Morale on the next turn when you do the First Aud Check? Are you sure? (I'm at work and my iPad battery is low, so I can't check). I've been playing that you do it immediately.

Mike

1. The Suppression rules on page 41 deal with suppression effects, not straight Morale Checks. Note the paragraph on page 41 that states:



Note, too, that the chart on page 41 indicates that modified firepower values are used for suppression while the Morale Check Point table on 54 indicates that only unmodified firepower values are considered.

2. Suppression checks are resolved using the Morale mechanic, not a TQ test.

3. If multiple morale checks apply to a unit in a single round of fire, only one check is made.

4. Morale checks are made immediately.

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Shawn Carpenter
Game Designer, Ambush Alley Games

"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."

I had to rush that answer in between phone calls - if it isn't clear, poke me again and I'll revisit it later today! I just wanted to get you guys something fast!

Hope it helps!

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Shawn Carpenter
Game Designer, Ambush Alley Games

"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."

Guys sorry, but I am very confused about your two replies.

As I have understood the rules, the confident unit in my exemple (please stick to that or I will lose my last useful neurons ) will immediately check for casualties, then again immediately they will do two morale checks, one for being hit by suppression fire of a modified value of more than 3D (even if casualties are NOT present) and one for being fired upon by a mounted weapon with an unmodified value of 3D. Perhaps a third one would be done IF casualties are effectively inflicted.

This can eventually come out in a pull back result, next turn obviously the first thing to do is going to be a first aid check to control the casualties' status (IF there have been casualties).

In this exemple, the morale check valid for all troops, that must be done when a unit takes casualties, is an option, because I don't know if casualties are inflicted or not. What I am asking is if the first two checks that (if I understood correctly) MUST be done are there or not.

But in the table of page 54, confident troops are indeed said to make checks for what is usually considered an intimidating weapon. Or wait... in the table at page 52 we are not talkin about intimidating weapons, because if a weapon is intimidating or not is taken in consideration only for suppression effects? This means that a weapon that is intimidating and vehicle mounted and an HMG, imposes two checks for suppressing fire and one for morale? I mean, yes suppressive fire can just pin unit but not impose a pull back, but if two suppressive checks are imposed they must be done in a row, perhaps one will be passed and not the other one, this will reflect the imposing fire of an HMG. Then on confident troops could impose a third check, this time a morale check that can see a final pull back result!

If multiple morale checks OF THE SAME TYPE apply to a unit in a single round of fire, only one check is made. Ehr... right?
The exemple number two in page 55 effectively deals with an HMG firing to a confident unit, but I think (as I have understood the rules obviously!!!) that at first a suppression check must be done AND a morale check is going to be done immediately after. The first one for the rule at page 41, the second for the rule in page 54. So if they miss both checks they must pull back anyway (casualties or not).

If a unit is fired on by an HMG (or other weapon that would cause a Supression Check or a Morale check due to confidence) make that check immediately. If the unit then takes casualties from the fire, make a second morale check. If a unit takes multiple casualties, though, it only takes one check, not multiple checks.

If a weapon is Intimidating, you will make a Morale check immediately. You will not make a second check for being fired at by a 3D+ weapon. If casualties are caused, you'll make a second check.

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Shawn Carpenter
Game Designer, Ambush Alley Games

"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."

Shawn wrote the rules so his response absolutely overrides my interpatation .....Mikey

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"All Men for the rights of Every man, every man for the rights of all Men"

Wow, simple as that. I love the rules.

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ad astra per aspera
liber et infractus

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." –- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

Can you make an exemple where an HMG provokes a suppression check without provoking a morale check?

Sure!

An HMG fires at an enemy unit. It has a modified Firepower of 5D (2D for its 2 man crew +3D for being a Hvy. Support Weapon) - its unmodified FP is 3D, which is below the 4D threshold stated on page 54. It rolls at least one 4+ on its firepower roll. If the Target unit is:

LOW CONFIDENCE - the unit makes a Morale Check with -1 Die Shift to Morale. If it fails, it is Suppressed.
CONFIDENT - the unit must make a Morale Check or be Suppressed.
HIGH CONFIDENCE - the unit takes no Morale or Suppression check.


The unit takes no casualties, so it suffers no extra Morale Checks from the fire.

The Morale Check for Suppression is not a standard Morale Check - it is a Suppression check. The rules state on page 41 that Suppression causes the same effect as a Pinned Result but that multiple Supressions will NOT cause a Fall Back.

Morale checks for other reasons (such as casualties, IEDs going off, etc.,) that result in multiple Pinned results WILL cause a Fall Back.

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Shawn Carpenter
Game Designer, Ambush Alley Games

"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."

The HMG is not an intimidating weapon?

Oops! Yes it is!

You got me, Joe!

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Shawn Carpenter
Game Designer, Ambush Alley Games

"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."