Ok, so here it is - a try of converting Classic BattleTech(TM) into Tomorrow's War

EDIT to draft 1.2
http://smallscaleoperations.blogspot.de ... tw-12.html

the version 1.0 is still a long road to go. It is work in progress and I need you to give me some of your thoughts about it.

PLEASE DO NOT spam me with thousands of questions about these or those particular BT technologies at this moment. Its all going to come and will be included step by step.

I need feedback on what I have already, not what I shall include - this will happen at a certain point and you'll be part of it. Let's focus on getting some basics done first, please.

The draft is based on BT technologies roughly around 4th Succession War and Clan Invasion. So its somewhere between 3020 and 3055. Later stuff will be included step by step.

Chris

_________________
Sgt. Screams 28mm/20mm/15mm Wargaming Blog (Modern, Sci-Fi)

April 09, 2012 Version 1.0 up
-basic work

April 11, 2012 Version 1.2 up
-expanded basic rules for BattleMech Class Vehicles in Tomorrow's War (bi-ped and quad)
-facing and hit locations specified
-weapons stats worked over using comments in here as guidelines
-new vehicle and infantry attributes added
-sample added for Clan Elemental infantry

_________________
Sgt. Screams 28mm/20mm/15mm Wargaming Blog (Modern, Sci-Fi)

I would very much like to download this but am hesitant to use an online down-loader program. especially one that my anti-virus program says has a digital certificate that cannot be verified. Can you post a pdf directly to this thread?

thank!

Jim, you got a PM. Sorry, but I cannot upload a pdf of the stuff here due to certain reasons at this time.

I had never ever an issue with the third party file hosting service that I used for the MS Word file. The last one I uploaded was a pdf that was downloaded 500+ times and I never had a report of the file being virus infected or anything like that.

_________________
Sgt. Screams 28mm/20mm/15mm Wargaming Blog (Modern, Sci-Fi)

Just had a quick read through of your rules and I have to say I like the way you are thinking. My underastanding on TW vehicle rules are still bit shaky but here is a few of my feelings on your rules.

1) I like the way you do armour and hits. Ignoring small arms is IMO the way to go. The one thing I don't like is the "Stackpole" reactor critical. Mech reactors don't have that much plasma and are designed to shut down if anything goes seriously wrong. This has been addressed in several source books.

2) the idea of weapon groups is very nice way to handle things (influenced by the computer games?)

3) I think you are over selling the anti-personnel effectiveness of the energy weapons. Maybe drop a a dice or two and give Pulse lasers 2 extra dice on the anti-personnel side. I think the ranking should be standard medium laser < AC-5 < medium pulse laser and and similarly PPC < AC-10 < Large pulse laser.

4) Making SRM a heavily Anti-Tank weapon system instead of a generalist one (Am I understanding your intent correctly) feels a bit off to me. Haven't looked in to TW vehicle rules enough to know is the less dice= bigger gun is a worthy trade.

Are you planning on running your infantry as squads of 7 or as fire teams of 3-4? The latter will make them fragile against many of the weapons with the stats you gave them. My feeling is that mechs shouldn't be able to just wipe out infantry in blink of an eye, rather than obliterate them with impunity a foxhole at a time, safe from return fire in their super armour.

Thank you. Hm, the explosion was inspired by the end of the Mechwarrior trailer of 2009. I am open to suggestions for that critical hit though.


That's one reason, and also because I want to make 3-4 weapons (groups) instead of having players picking out of 7-8 different systems, depending on Mech weight class. It also easier to keep track on destroyed stuff. Although for the latter there will be a sheet with markers (i.e. ""AC 1/2 FP" and "AC K/O" etc)



I had that feeling, too. After all, Lasers do apply damage by "melting" through armor the longer they can be kept on the spot. I might consider for real to drop the AP ratings.


The SRM and LRM are by far the most difficult weapons to create for Tomorrow's War. I really need you guys to give me some thoughts about them.
If its worth the trade? Playtest, playtest, playtest. Don't forget that there is NARC and also Streak SRMs.
Streaks already do hit the Deck Armor which makes them really dangerous. NARC (not in the word file yet) will do what Streaks do, but against Rear Armor. That increases the chance to damage by far but yet makes them slightly weaker than the active guided Streaks.




I am running infantry exactly as in BattleTroops. Standard IS layout.
I know about the fears you described above. I am tending to give Mechs a -1 FirePower penalty OR a -1 for Reaction Tests against infantry as the single troopers are almost too tiny to actively acquire them with the target computers.

_________________
Sgt. Screams 28mm/20mm/15mm Wargaming Blog (Modern, Sci-Fi)

How did/does battletroops handle the infantry organisations?

I gave the SRMs some thought and was thinking about what if each die that beat the armour does not give a dice shift but an additional roll on the Light gun table? I think this would give the SRMs the right feel of hitting lots of places simultaneously.

Interesting thought. I will have to mind-game that idea this afternoon.

BattleTroops makes infantry 7 men per squad. 3 men per fire team, one NCO.
28 troopers one platoon.

_________________
Sgt. Screams 28mm/20mm/15mm Wargaming Blog (Modern, Sci-Fi)

Had just a quick look at the rules and they look good to me. Just a little hint, which may make your work a bit easier. The term "Mech" has no copyright on it! Only "Battlemech", "Omnimech" and the quite similiar "'Mech". The term is free, since it also referrers to "motorized infantry" or other mechanized gear.

_________________

@VilleVicious: gave it a thought and came to the conclusion that I don't want to override standard hit application rules of TW - I want to retain as much original TW game logics and mechanics as possible.

We need another attempt on SRMs.

BTW, I currently have draft 1.1 in work and I bumped the SRM stats to

SRM 2 TL x AP:3/AT:4(L), max. Range 12”, only once per turn
SRM 4 TL x AP:4/AT:5(L), max. Range 12”, only once per turn
SRM 6 TL x AP:5/AT:6(L), max. Range 12”, only once per turn

I cancelled the idea of making them (H) as they lack the punch of other weapons. Their stats now resemble them doing the same damage with only two, four and six missiles, that LRM salvos can apply with having to fire ten, 15 and 20 missiles.
The SRM has no splatter damage area though and doesn't need to worry about Danger Close rules.

So you now spray your target with SRM salvos at close range that have enough dice of FirePower to score a hit that does penetrate armor and deals damage, but it won't be as serious as damage dealt by a heavy Autocannon for example. I think that feels more like the CBT equivalent now. Thoughts?

@Jin Fox: well, I thought better save than sorry.

_________________
Sgt. Screams 28mm/20mm/15mm Wargaming Blog (Modern, Sci-Fi)

Ok, updated general rules for all Mech type of vehicles:


BattleMech® Class Vehicle special rules:

Following rules apply to all BattleMech® Class Vehicles:

Advanced Sensors: all BattleMech® Class Vehicles are considered having the attribute “Advanced Sensors” by default. See Tomorrow’s War rules, p. 194 for details.

Eject: Each BattleMech® has a security system to rescue the pilot. Whether traditional ejection seat or fully disconnecting cockpit (head) – in TW they all work the same. If a pilot successfully ejects, the 'Mech® will shutdown immediately and may no longer act or react in any kind of way. Place a figure resembling the pilot exactly a D10 inches away (random direction) from the vehicle.
Pilots that had to abandon their 'Mech® suffer from a reduction of Troop Quality due to the loss of confidence. If their TQ drops below D6, remove them from play (count them as stragglers for campaigns).

Gigantic: all BattleMech® Class Vehicles are considered to be “Gigantic” vehicles (TW, p. 118) and all rules for those apply, no matter what weight class or size. They do use their own special Damage Table though.

Battlefield Awareness: Mechwarriors® have an almost 360° field of vision due to the way their Neurohelmets work. They never suffer from the penalties of being Buttoned-Up for Reaction Tests.

Safest Place On Earth: To the pilot of a 'Mech® nothing feels as natural and safe like the cockpit of his towering engine of destruction. Mechwarriors® never make Bail Out Checks like regular vehicle crews - unless a special rule requires them to do so (e.g. Inferno Rounds or Flamers) or the BattleMech® Vehicle Class Damage Table asks for a check.
All other rules for Morale apply like to all regular vehicles as well. Just ignore the Bail Out Checks unless its due to a specific reason like written above.

'Mech® Physical Attacks: all BattleMech® Class Vehicles are considered having the attribute “Anti-Vehicular Melee Weapons” by default. See Tomorrow’s War rules, p. 194 for details. This represents anything from kicking with its legs to smashing the opponent with fists or weapon barrels. For actual Close Assault weapons see the rules below.

'Mech® Hatchets, Swords etc.: all BattleMech® Class Vehicles are considered having the attribute “Anti-Vehicular Melee Weapons” by default. See Tomorrow’s War rules, p. 194 for details. BattleMechs® with actual weapons for Close Assault however use different stats for this sort of attack:

Mech® Hatchets, Swords etc. AP:5/AT:4(H)


Tech Level: The Tech Level of a vehicle is based upon the items installed and where its origins are from:

Inner Sphere Weapons, Armor, Sensors and Stealth: Tech Level 2.
Clan Weapons, Armor, Sensors and Stealth: Tech Level 3.
Low Tech/Utility/Civilian Vehicle Weapons, Armor, Sensors: Tech Level 1.

Weapon Groups: Most BattleMechs® carry more weapons than a pilot can fire at once.
Thus sometimes the stats of a 'Mech® show Weapon Groups instead. A Weapon Group is treated like a single system for all game purposes.
Depending on Tech Level, a 'Mech® can fire as many weapons as listed in Tomorrow’s War, p. 118.
As a rule of thumb, each additional system of the same type increases the AP and AT values by 1. No more than three weapons of same type may be in a single Weapon Group at any time. If the FirePower is cut in half due to damage results, round up.

Example: an Inner Sphere tech level BLR-1G Battlemaster is equipped with one PPC, two MGs, one SRM rack and last but not least, six Medium Lasers. Two of them are mounted to the rear arc, four firing into the forward arc. The stats might show the Battlemaster carrying (bonus for multiple weapon systems in groups already included):
2 Medium Lasers TL 2 AP:5/AT:4(M)
2 Medium Lasers TL 2 AP:5/AT:4(M)
2 Medium Lasers (rear) TL 2 AP:5/AT:4(M)
1 PPC TL 2 AP:6/AT:4(H)
2 MGs TL 2 AP:4
1 SRM-6 (....)

Facing: Facing normally does not play a major role in Tomorrow’s War. Since we consider BattleMechs® being Gigantic Vehicles though, the actual Front Arc needs to be clearly defined. No matter how the sculpt of your miniature is looking like or how dramatic its pose – the Front Arc ruleswise is the direction the miniature seems to be walking (Note: I prefer marking that direction on circular bases with paint, although its obvious that rectangular or hex-bases make it easier in the first place).
It doesn’t matter which direction the cockpit faces or what side a torso/turret is oriented to – the legs only are important to determine Facing and whether a target or incoming fire is within a specific arc.

Firing Arcs: Unless a weapon system within vehicle stats says it is fixed in “Rear” position in particular, all BattleMech® Class Vehicles’ weapons can only be fired at opponents within the “Front” and “Side” arcs. This means that a 'Mech® can only React with Fire to enemy Actions in its Rear Arc, if it still has weapons remaining that are mounted into this part of the chassis!
If the weapon does not state its facing, always consider it being mounted to the Front Arc by default. If weapons are mounted into arms, legs or torso parts does not have any influence in Tomorrow’s War – allowing them to fire into both Sides and into the Front Arc resembles the 'Mech’s® whole torso being twisted in the direction of the enemy and/or arms brought up in position to fire.
However, remember that the amount of weapons firing into the same Arc is limited by the rules for Gigantic Vehicles in TW, p. 118 ff.

Quad 'Mechs®: Four-legged BattleMech® Class Vehicles are a rare unit as most commanders don’t consider their advantages making them worthwhile compared to their drawbacks.
The most significant advantage of having four legs is the stable platform for weapon systems such a construction provides. Quad 'Mechs® therefore always make use of the “Advanced Fire Control” Attribute (TW, p. 195).
Their major drawback is the fact that they indeed are a walking platform. The wide stance of the legs makes it easy for infantry and Battle Armor units to get underneath the 'Mech® and attack some of the weakest armor - its underside. Consider all attacks from enemy units (apart from other 'Mechs® due to their size) coming from within 1” or in actual base-to-base contact with the Quad 'Mech® striking against its Deck Armor.


more to follow, please note the Laser values are not final (especially the AP factor)

_________________
Sgt. Screams 28mm/20mm/15mm Wargaming Blog (Modern, Sci-Fi)

Version 1.2 up

http://smallscaleoperations.blogspot.de ... tw-12.html

_________________
Sgt. Screams 28mm/20mm/15mm Wargaming Blog (Modern, Sci-Fi)

read through the 1.2 doc... love it

some other ideas, but these can wait til we start statting the individual mechs

1. some 4 legged mechs are actually low slung to the ground... Tarantula and Bishamon
for starters, Scorpion also probably, one of the novels has a scorpion moving through a
standard subway tunnel.

2. some mechs have shoulder baffles that are going to protect the head against side hits...
Awesome and Charger being the best examples.

_________________
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf

Thanks for your suggestions.

Bear in mind that "head" is not a hit location in TW. Hence those add-on armor plates would be treated like the "up-armored" attribute for a specific arc (I'd probably go with Deck armor value being increased or side armor.)

_________________
Sgt. Screams 28mm/20mm/15mm Wargaming Blog (Modern, Sci-Fi)

On the HeatSink Crits

Heat Sinks Damaged: The Mech® has suffered internal damage and a Heat Sink was knocked out. The heat build-up within the Mech® raises drastically. Roll a TQ check at the begin of every turn: if it fails, the Mechwarrior® receives a negative Die Shift for that turn for all of his Actions/Reactions due to barely being able to stay conscious. This test takes priority over any other test like trying to stabilize a Mech® after a “Gyro K/O” result for example.

My I suggest another way to show them.

The Highest Damage Still Functioning Weapon System is now Slow Firing +1.
So if it was already Slow 1, One Turn Delay Between Firing it gets a Two Turn Delay.

If the Heat Sinks take Two Crits then all weapons get Slowing Firing +1.
Each Heat Sink Crit increases this by another +1.

Does not take into account movement but I think it might be easier to deal with in a game.

Just a Thought,

Lee